Homosexuality isn’t Bestiality.
“So the church and state are separate… next thing you know they’ll be outlawing religion entirely.”
“So women want to vote… next thing you know they’ll have caucuses of crying babies.”
“So black people want civil rights… next thing you know we’ll be giving them to cattle.”
And on, and on, until, “so gay people want to get married. Next thing you know they’ll be marrying dogs.”
The sick and twisted irony of all of this is that the first one- outlawing religion- is one that is still felt oh so many years later. So I don’t doubt that when gay marriage inevitably is allowed, people will continue to fear that there will be framed marriage certificates reading “John Smith” is wed to “Fuzzy”- and it won’t be in an ironic sense.
There is a difference between redefining law and abolishing it completely. Saying that marriage can occur between two consenting adults of legal status instead of between any male and female of legal status is not the same as saying, “marriage is open! Call in the sheep! Anything goes!” Just as separating the church and state didn’t lead to the abolishment of Catholicism outright and women being able to vote doesn’t mean that ANYONE can and black people having equal rights doesn’t mean that dogs do, too.
I understand. It is uncomfortable thinking of law as fluid rather than rigid. The second we realize that law is fluid we start to feel the ground under our feet move. But we also have to understand that it is we as a society who define the land over which law flows. We, as a people, govern our nation. Remember that. So it is we as a people who can say, “okay, Jack and John but not John and Fido.”
And OUR word is law.
For people who believe that we as a society are evil I suppose that’s a scary thought. I, personally, don’t believe that I live in an evil society. Certainly there are problems and certainly there are times when I want to put a pillow over my head and sing myself to sleep, but ultimately I believe that given correct information, comfort, and enough time, all people are capable of doing the right thing. In this case I suppose I have a difference of opinion from a lot of Christians, because I believe the right thing is allowing people to be “affirmed” in their “sin”- but sin is a choice that we all can and do make, to varying impacts, every day. At least sin committed out of love has got one thing right: Love.
Just keep in mind that there is an insurmountable difference between two consenting adults who love each other wishing to be joined in a legally recognized and protected union, and having sexual relations with a beast. There is a difference, a huge difference. The difference is that any sane person can see that regardless of sex, affection between two humans is affection that can be returned in equal parts. Sex, as a result of affection, is not so different regardless of the genders engaging in it. And I do believe that most homosexuals do feel affection for their long-term partners. Sex with animals, on the other hand, is all about lust and control.
Homosexuality is NOT about lust and control.
If you, dear reader, disagree with me on that point I suppose there is no reason to continue the discussion. Just please, talk to a few gay people. Ask them about their hopes and dreams and expectations of life. Ask them the qualities they seek in a partner. See that aside from the gender issue, they aren’t so different from you and I.
divorcefire replied:
Exchanging natural relations for unnatural relations is a very dangerous place to play in life. The entire universe speaks of how things have been designed, just because humans have freedom of choice does not constitute a right to go against how things are designed to be.
April 10, 2008 at 12:41 pm. Permalink.
Used Guitars replied:
An interesting view
April 10, 2008 at 12:44 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
Bravo again Shush. Beautifully written.
divorcefire – let me ask you something here? Do you think for one moment people Choose to be gay? It is a choice? I can tell you that they do not! Ask any Gay person and they would have rather not have been Gay. They would have rather not had to deal with all of the heartache and stress and drama and people like you who judge them.
God MADE them that way. For them it is not a choice and it is what is natural to them. Just because it isn’t natural to you does not mean a thing.
To some people divorce is not natural… but obviously in your life it is somehow – would you like people to tar you for it? Would you like them to judge you for it? Even if your husband beat you, cheated on you, or if it was zero fault of your own?
Look beyond the small picture here. Being gay is the hardest road for a person to take. Often it means no family and children. It means non acceptance by society. It means non acceptance by your own family and friends many times. How terribly sad.
Gay happens in the animal kingdom all over!!!! Its not just humans. In fact, some animals don’t even need mates to procreate! Your theory blown out of the water right there!
As for the design of the Universe….Would you like to have a conversation with me regarding that? I assure you that my knowledge of such things is vast.
April 10, 2008 at 2:19 pm. Permalink.
Tony replied:
Well done. You gave the topic far more deliberation and measured thinking then I did.
April 10, 2008 at 2:36 pm. Permalink.
Chris replied:
To amberfireinus:
Regardless of where this leads us in the end, I don’t think it matters if homosexuality is a choice or if we are born this way. Humans are born into sin, and we all have to struggle against that our whole lives. Plenty of people are born with a bent toward addiction they receive from their ancestors, and certainly nobody is perfect. Just because we are born with something, that doesn’t mean that we don’t have to put off the Adam and put on Christ.
April 10, 2008 at 3:49 pm. Permalink.
lesbiansaidwhat replied:
Excellent post! Thank you for taking the time to write it.
April 10, 2008 at 3:58 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
Chris – what gives you the right to judge another? Are you God? God alone can judge Sin. God makes us all PERFECT. He has a plan for us. There is a reason and a place for us all in this world.
I can’t believe that you could possibly see God as faulty? Do you mean he made a mistake by making these people this way?
Animals have a NEED to mate. We are not built to be alone. How much more of a sin is it to lie to a man or a woman that you could not possibly love and hurt them and any children….
Your arguements are… so PATHETIC!
April 10, 2008 at 3:58 pm. Permalink.
shush replied:
Everyone: (with the conspicuous exception of Tony and lesbiansaidwhat) The question of Homosexuality as a physical, mental or spiritual condition isn’t easily solved. All I can say is I’ve yet to meet someone who feels there was a point they “chose” homosexuality. So if it is a choice, it’s not a conscious one, just as while people “choose” to drink alcohol they don’t choose alcoholism. I’ve heard arguments made that ADD and Depression are “chosen” states as well- none of these things are consciously chosen and while one can choose to grow beyond them, the difference between alcoholism and depression and homosexuality is the vast majority of homosexuals don’t feel that they NEED to move beyond it, they don’t feel it harms their lives and many of them feel that God must have intended them to be the way they are.
One thing I am sure of is that it is not up to me, my doctrine, or my beliefs to force their hand, and since they did not consciously choose their lifestyle I don’t think that we as a society have the right to marginalize them through law. I do believe that God created a righteous world, that God created man and woman in a certain way with certain intent, that the ability to create and preserve life within the female body is sacred, and all that it entails- but regardless of my personal belief, I think that a lesbian can choose to live a separate kind of life and still find God and love, even if she chose to marry another woman and never experience motherhood.
The question isn’t of righteousness, it’s rights. Should people have access to the same rights if they choose to live with someone of the same sex and share a life with them?
April 10, 2008 at 4:01 pm. Permalink.
glorylove555 replied:
HELLO,
My name is glory jonah
Hopefully this mail will find you in a perfect state of mind and good healthy condition. While going through the,http://shushnow.wordpress.com I came accross your profile which I personally find interesting and charming and decided to drop you few lines just to say hi,I am looking for a long term relationship in a man of your kind who unerderstands the need to love and be loved. I have taken time to see the age difference us but this is really within my choice of age range and I have no problems with that.
I sincerely find you and what I have read so far from your profile very interesting and I will like to know and hear more from you. Included here with this mail is my email address through which you can reach me. (glory_jonah55@yahoo.com)
I really look forward to reading from you soon.
Thanks.
Yours Truly Love
Miss. jonah
April 10, 2008 at 5:18 pm. Permalink.
shush replied:
@ Glory:
Um… I’m a woman, and I’m already married, and I’m leaving your comment there because it’s making me laugh.
April 10, 2008 at 5:21 pm. Permalink.
Chris replied:
amberfireinus: at the very least I think you should tone it down a bit, otherwise discussion turns into unnecessary shouting, and that’s just unpleasant.
I never said that I judge sin, I said that humans are born into sin. I don’t think I need to find exact quotes from the Bible for that; we all know it’s there. My point is only that the scriptures are rather clear that homosexuality is a life that was not intended by God from the beginning of creation, but rather one of the many results of the fall of man. In that fall, we are all sinful, and that manifests itself differently from one human to the next. I’m not saying that we should go around damning everyone for their sin, I’m simply saying that this “born that way” excuse doesn’t hold any merit to me (hence the point of an opinion) because we are all born sinful and have a life struggle with that.
April 10, 2008 at 6:33 pm. Permalink.
PolitiPornster replied:
Shush,
This is way off topic but maybe we should try to find Glory a man. I feel compelled by her story and her longing to seek out a mate for her. Are you with me? This could go somewhere if we’re sucessful. Maybe we should reserve the http://www.shushmatch.com domain name. This has suddenly become so “Fiddler on the Roof”. I’m out of here.
April 10, 2008 at 6:36 pm. Permalink.
Stephen Bedard replied:
I would like to comment on the idea of homosexuality being a choice or a creation of God. I agree that it is not likely a choice (although homosexual acts can be a choice, it happens in prison all the time). But that does not mean that God created the person to be a homosexual. The first thing comes to mind is the uncontrolable desire of pedophile, does that make them created that way since they did not choose that way? However, I understand that comparing homosexuals to pedophiles is unfair and not productive to conversation. What about a person who feels drawn to multiple partners, they can not be faithful to their spouse, because of an irresistible draw to others. they are not choosing thatlife, that is the nature of their sex drive. What about people who do not want to be addicted to pornography, but are drawn in that direction. If they could choose, they would never look at it again, but there is something inside drawing them. Do we say that God created certain people to be promiscuous or addicted to pornography. I hate having to compare homosexuality to such things, but what I want to say is that choice and birth (whether evolution of God) are not the only options. There are other possible enviromental factors.
April 10, 2008 at 7:27 pm. Permalink.
remixed4 replied:
Thank you so much for this article.
I think [obviously] that this is a very important topic!
My question is – who in their right mind would choose to be gay? Honestly. The shit we go through is something I don’t think ANYONE would choose. As to the religious side of the debate – I’m an atheist. I don’t carry an opinion on that. Regardless – Thank you for opening up this topic for discussion.
April 10, 2008 at 7:58 pm. Permalink.
Tony replied:
Stephen Bedard
It’s an interesting arguement you put forth there. I have some points to consider though. I understand your point that man is expected to resist urges like pedophilia, that goes without saying because having sex with a person before they are physically or mentally capable of dealing with that is harmful to them plain and simple. A person who has any regard at all for human life and sanity understands this. Therefore it is criminal. Pornography on the other hand is consentual, the people being taped or photographed are doing so of their own free will, not being coerced, and in many cases probably enjoy their work, some may not of course but prostitution is the world’s oldest profession and like it or not it has been a force known to empower women as often as it degrades them. Very few other professions have been historically able to give women the power and influence that prostitution did. Perhaps people have such a problem with it because it might in-fact be too empowering? But anyhow… those who look at porn may or may not see themselves as sinning, I sure don’t, and my girlfriend doesn’t either. Those who choose not to indulge in such activities are interesting sorts and while I can respect their decisions, I do wonder where they might tend to release their excess tension. It was after all Abraham Lincoln who said “It is in my experience that those who have no vices have very few virtues.”
So my point is, being homosexual doesn’t innately harm anyone. It is a consensual affair that in a land of the free cannot be a crime just as it cannot be a crime to practice one’s own religion or be a particular skin color or maintain a particular cultural heritage. Therefore, what must people resist about it? Obviously there are certain discriminations that exist which deter a gay person from deciding to practice that lifestyle, and there are also honest reasons, like wishing to be a parent that could also be a factor. The fact is you live in a country where god’s law does not rule, therefore the law of the land must be that as long as the practice is not illegal then it is unlawful to discriminate against those who practice it.
April 10, 2008 at 8:31 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
Chris – I am sorry that you feel my tone was inappropriate. Its just that for days I have been replying to posts such as yours on this subject and I have to admit to starting to get cranky.
I truly hope that none of your children or grandchildren are homosexuals so that you will never know the pain that this causes in their lives. People like you who make them feel less than all whilst saying that they could simply turn off their “gayness” and choose to be straight. I hope that in their desperation they don’t turn to drugs or suicide like so many do because they can’t deal with this type of hate. Hate from the world and hate of themselves.
People like you make me sad. My heart breaks to read your posts. Jesus was all about embracing those who society cast aside. He championed them. Being a Christian means following the teachings of Jesus… following his teachings by example. That would be forgiveness and tollerance if you weren’t paying attention.
April 10, 2008 at 9:03 pm. Permalink.
shush replied:
Amber and Chris: Try, both of you, to keep in mind that what truly matters is not how one feels about the doctrine of purity and whether or not homosexual acts are a sin- what matters is how one acts towards the person and if we are willing to treat them as equals in society.
I’m lucky to know that both of you are reasonable and God-Fearing (well, ha! God-loving) people and that at the end of the day you love your neighbors.
THAT is what matters.
April 10, 2008 at 9:15 pm. Permalink.
Chris replied:
Jesus loved those who recognized who they were relative to who he was. He had no time for those who twisted the truth and were unrepentant. The woman at the well, the very sick woman, the tax collectors, all these people sought forgiveness and Jesus forgave their sins, because he saw their heart. That’s repentance if you weren’t paying attention. (Sorry to add sarcasm to sarcasm, but whatever).
I totally agree, Shush, that it isn’t our part to doll out judgments, and certainly that is not what I’m trying to say. I believe that Christians should only be holding each other accountable to the things we universally believe, and it isn’t our place to thrust judgment on the rest of the world.
This whole thing started only because I said it doesn’t matter TO ME if homosexuality is nature or nurture. I do believe it to be a consequence of a fallen world among all the other aspects, and I will strive to be a source of love and light in this world.
April 10, 2008 at 9:30 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
There is simply nothing else to say to someone like you Chris. You must be God.. for you sit in judgement and you know all. Wow… so glad I got to hear your great words.
Thank goodness I have zero fear of you! lol Shush.
April 10, 2008 at 9:35 pm. Permalink.
Chris replied:
You aren’t even listening. Roots of sin don’t matter; it’s not my place to judge, though I am entitled to agree with the Bible on what it says is a sin; I will love all. These are my bullet points. You have established an opinion of me and you aren’t going to budge, which sucks cause I think I’ve done a thorough job of explaining that everything you just said is not where I’m trying to come from. Sorry I threw out that sarcastic comment, if that’s what you’re clinging to, but frankly I’m allowed to get sick of your tone, too.
April 10, 2008 at 9:39 pm. Permalink.
Stephen Bedard replied:
My point was not about whether a person should resist homosexual urges (although I believe that they should). My point is that just because a person does not make a conscious decision to have certain feelings does not mean that they were created to have those feelings. There are many other factors affecting people than just birth or choice.
April 10, 2008 at 9:42 pm. Permalink.
wvhillcountry replied:
Such an interesting discussion going on here. Let me see if I am getting the main points…
#1 We are not to judge. That is God’s job alone.
#2 Everyone can and has their own interpretation of scripture. Give the same passage to 10 people and there will be 10 different takes on it. The differences may be slight but they will be there.
#3 Universal belief held by all Christians? I do have to question that statement because what people believe depends on their religious upbringing and life experiences. I know my denomination differs from church to church and even from pastor to pastor. Some Methodists churches still frown on dancing or card playing (not gambling) for their ministers.
#4 The majority of the homosexuals I have talked to have stated that they never chose to be gay and if there was a magic pill to make them straight, they would take it.
#5 Ok I think I get the feeling that all present believes in the love of God and Christ. I have been told it is a love greater than all understanding. If you agree with that statement, then how can we even fathom a guess to what God will do? Maybe that love is greater than the differences in age, gender, race, orientation, height, eye color, and shoe size.
April 10, 2008 at 10:13 pm. Permalink.
Chris replied:
Well put, very well put. As for #3, my point is for those things that Christians do have in common: don’t sleep around, don’t steal, don’t be lazy, don’t cheat, those sorts of things. We are called to build each other up, and those doctrinal things that different denominations don’t have in common tend not to be the things that we would care about in each other’s lives.
April 10, 2008 at 10:16 pm. Permalink.
madmonq replied:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell#Civil_rights
Oddly, the usually backward Falwell was open to the idea of civil rights for homosexuals
April 10, 2008 at 10:30 pm. Permalink.
shush replied:
@ Everyone: While I respect the fact that people want to debate and explain their beliefs, the point of this post isn’t whether or not homosexuality is sin, it is whether or not REGARDLESS of people’s feelings on the issue, homosexual couples should be granted civil rights and protections. If you want to just talk about whether or not homosexuality is a choice, feel free to comment on my post on that subject entitled What if I were Gay? and if you want to discuss the Church and how it should address homosexuality, you can comment on The Church and Homosexuals
Otherwise, let’s all shake hands and walk away on this one. I respect all of you and your personal beliefs and feelings- but right now I want to talk about how homosexuals ought to be treated- not how we all feel about their choices or lack thereof.
April 10, 2008 at 10:39 pm. Permalink.
Chris replied:
Well that’s easy, then. Love everybody.
April 10, 2008 at 10:47 pm. Permalink.
shush replied:
April 10, 2008 at 10:55 pm. Permalink.
R F replied:
Shush and Amber,
The two of you represent what this world needs most: kindness, an open mind, and a genuine concern for your fellow man. Reading your well-thought posts leads me to believe that there is hope yet for our time here on earth. Thank you.
April 10, 2008 at 11:30 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
Thank you RF… I appreciate your kind words. I try to encourage love for everyone. I try to show love and tollerance. This world so needs it. I have seen so many horrors with my own eyes. Beauty is so much better for the soul………….
April 11, 2008 at 12:15 am. Permalink.
gturkey replied:
Any person should be allowed to live, love and enjoy whatever carnal relations they wish with another person, gay, heterosexual or otherwise. To call this ‘unnatural’ may be true, but mankind’s natural state is naked, eating berries and hunting deer. In any civilized, decent and free society, gay couples should be given equal rights to traditional ones.
Some call this ‘an assault on religion’. This is nonsense. It is merely fulfilling a basic human rights. Rather, it is the religions that are assaulting homosexuals ; the old testament says to Christians and Jews that ‘a man who sleeps with another man should be stoned’.
Religions and associated homophobia have had, and still do have great sway over legal status. Very few countries legalize unions, and some countries, such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, go so far as to execute them. Even some democratic countries, such as India, consider ‘sodomy’ a crime (though views are, thankfully, changing).
To conclude this (obscenely long) comment: I commend this article and its author for pointing out this ridiculous conservatism, and I, with them, hope for a freer and saner world.
April 11, 2008 at 2:09 am. Permalink.
e2c replied:
@ Tony – Maybe, just maybe, for a few ULTRA-highly paid call girls (and, before them, courtesans), prostitution was or is “empowering.” But you know what? I seriously doubt it. I also find your attempted justifications for porn “not harming anyone” to be equally (umm…) specious.
But that’s just me.
shush, sorry for being the one to rock the boat yet again… but I thought it might be worth addressing both of these contentions.
April 11, 2008 at 2:23 am. Permalink.
e2c replied:
Also, one quick question: why do you keep bringing up porn in the comments here and elsewhere? I don’t understand this, truly.
April 11, 2008 at 2:26 am. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
I have just had a thought about this subject and the bible. In fact a way to look at the bible in total. Maybe you will agree, maybe you will not. That is your choice. But here is an idea.
The bible was compiled 600 years after the death of Jesus. This is a fact. Many concepts and amendments were made to the content and added to ensure the divinity of Christ during that time. This is also a fact.
Another little known biblical fact is that the original biblical translations are not all that accurate. Let me give you an example of this: The word Alma is used to describe Mary the mother of Jesus. Alma has been translated to be meaning virgin. It does not mean virgin. It simply means young woman with the implication of being unmarried but not necessarily unmarried. This is a HUGE difference. Kind of the same as calling someone Miss. Ms. or Mrs. Any could apply without knowing for sure…
I think that we need to take from the bible its lessons of love, forgiveness, and overall concepts of goodness. For all we know, the translation of texts regarding homosexuals are incorrect and their meaning is faulty. We simply don’t know exactly what was added at the time of the bible being constructed in that conference of men.. do we? How much of that was their own prejudices, not unlike those of St. Pauls against women?
It is not our place to judge. It is not our ability to understand the plan of God. It is simply in our ability to love our brothers and sisters, to accept them, to show them mercy and empathy and charity and kindness…
I believe that is the TRUTH of the bible.
April 11, 2008 at 3:02 am. Permalink.
wvhillcountry replied:
shush,
I agree with you that the issue is the same rights for everyone. And in a perfect world that would the only issue GLBT faced, but the main problem is that our government, all governments are run by people who bring with them their beliefs and “moral” values. Humans can’t seem to think without feelings getting involved. I am not saying that is necessarily a bad thing all of the time.
While I can sit here and agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, that doesn’t mean that I agree with every opinion expressed. But look at how it played out in this post. It plays out the same way in the house and senate.
Most people are raised with a religious doctrine, no matter the denomination or creed, it is still a part of their thought processes. Yes many people are atheists and others have turned from their original teachings and found new ones, but religious belief, or lack thereof, is still a part of who they are.
It would be great if laws were made by logic and the same rules applied to everyone, but realistically, in a flawed world ( aren’t we all flawed? ) religion and beliefs will always be involved in civil rights issues.
Look at the history of our country, first the Native Americans, then the African Americans, and women. I believe that someday gay couples will enjoy the same liberties as everyone else and the churches will follow suit and officially apologize to the gay community as it has to the other groups.
But till then, I personally thank you for your thoughts and posts. I respect you for putting it out there and maybe speeding the day when I can truly be equal in the sight of the law.
April 11, 2008 at 4:11 am. Permalink.
shush replied:
wvhillcountry: Thank you for such a thoughtful comment. I agree- there are times when the discussion of doctrine and theology can’t be easily parted from discussion of law. After all, my own great country still has a very vocal minority who believes that morality ought to be legislated.
The time will come when compassion wins out, as it always has in the past. It is my personal prayer that it will be in my lifetime, and I will be a part of it. Time will tell.
Until then, thank you for coming and reading, and I hope that I myself gave you comfort where the comments of others did not.
April 11, 2008 at 12:10 pm. Permalink.
shush replied:
AMBER!: You could inspire another entire post with that little comment. Yes, the word “alma” could be translated to mean any young woman- and since Mary was engaged there would be no expectation of her virginity, as betrothed couples often consummated prior to marriage ceremonies.
There is a strong argument for the fact that other traditions brought in the “virgin birth” story to pad Jesus’ resume, as virgin birth has a strong history of being used in mythology.
The truth is we can never know how much is historical fact and how much is mythological tradition, especially in the earlier parts of the Bible, which is why I’m flexible about the amount of days (or millions of years) it took for man to be created, etc.
April 11, 2008 at 12:14 pm. Permalink.
shush replied:
@ gturkey: thank you very much for your comment.
April 11, 2008 at 12:16 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
Thank you shush … Sometimes.. knowing christian history rather than sticking to Christian dogma gives an interesting view… no?
April 11, 2008 at 2:35 pm. Permalink.
Tony replied:
E2C
I’d love to hear more about your opinions on why you find my arguments ring so false when it comes to pornography. However I don’t think this is the forum to discuss this so out of respect to Shush, I invite you over to a post on my own blog that I wrote some months ago on the topic. Please feel free to comment and express your opinions.
http://schoonerhelm.vox.com/library/post/p0rn-and-trust.html
April 11, 2008 at 2:51 pm. Permalink.
Tony replied:
Stephen Bedard
I see your point now. Thanks for clearing that up.
April 11, 2008 at 3:04 pm. Permalink.
e2c replied:
shush – my apologies for the threadjack.
Tony, I’ll look at the post on your blog later. Still wondering, though, why you brought the topic into this discussion? I know my previous comments sound combative, and – truthfully – I was feeling pretty irked.
suffice it to say that there are other ways of viewing these topics… and that maybe it would be good for you to take a look around and see what others are saying.
April 11, 2008 at 5:30 pm. Permalink.
e2c replied:
To add some context re. the whole “marrying a dog (or goat”) thing – here are two
BBC articles on the topic. Clicking on links might help clear up the confusion, I’m thinking.
April 13, 2008 at 10:12 pm. Permalink.
Vanessa replied:
Hey shush: Love your stuff. I am just wanting to comment on the initial intention of the thread, about gay marriage, or what I like to refer to it as, Equal Marriage. It will not be an entity in and of itself; it is not special rights; we don’t have to re-invent the wheel here. We, as in lesbians like me, and gay men that I know, want to have equal access to the CIVIL institution of marriage. Here in Pennsylvania, USA, we are fighting hard to not allow the legislators create a public referendum to amend our state constitution, because they want to make it clear that marriage should only be between one man and one woman, AND that there will be no opportunity down the road for civil unions, or anything resembling marriage under another name.
It seems to be an awfully lot of trouble to go to just to exclude us. What harm could we do? Again, if we are talking civil rights here, there is nothing to stand in the way for us to legally have marriage. Religiously, I am fully aware of how complicated it can get. However, there are some congregations, pastors, churches that will officiate ceremonies for gay and lesbian couples. To change our state’s constitution to protect the rights of some, but not my rights with my partner of thirteen years, is unnecessary and just plain wrong….
April 14, 2008 at 5:39 pm. Permalink.
jaklumen replied:
Here’s a curveball: What about homoerotic yiff?
(Yes, for some reason I have furry on the brain– mostly because someone in my Friendslist at another blogging community posted about going to a furry convention.
But no, there was no yiff. My mind just has a habit of going downstream on the urban river, if ya get my meaning.)
April 14, 2008 at 5:41 pm. Permalink.
Renegade replied:
These comments and replies are all great and well thought out.
personally im bisexual…well morelike confused about sexuality. I also happen to be christian.
there were questions raised but still we have no answers/opinions
some one said that homosexuality isn’t a choice….and blah blah magic pill…blah blah turn straight
then the counter point was the whole porn lover…cheaters….killer ,ect. not choosing these ‘impulses’ but still it isn’t right
homosexuality is very clearly Unnatural. we all know that. homo sexual or not. and many people are born this way. But..(and here’s the cleancher) can we be homosexual and religious?
is the actual act of homosexual sex a sin?
can a person live as a homosexual and go to heaven? even be loved by God
say two people are in a homosexual relationship but perform no acts of sex…is this sin
further more..are different sins weighed differently? who is the judge?
is homosexuality a ‘BIG’ or ‘SMALL’ sin…
damn I have so many more questions……jus can’t find the perfect brush to paint what’s on my mind
May 13, 2008 at 1:59 am. Permalink.
Lindsey replied:
Renegade: I had so many things to say to you, I couldn’t possibly do it in a single comment. So my most recent post is for you.
Take care.
May 13, 2008 at 11:42 am. Permalink.