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	<title>Comments on: Perceptions, labels, marginilization</title>
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	<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/</link>
	<description>I am a gay-affirming pro-choice left-wing loony pacifist environmental nutjob Christian!</description>
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		<title>By: e2tc</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/#comment-1668</link>
		<dc:creator>e2tc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 02:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-1668</guid>
		<description>Those of us who&#039;ve been single over the long term tend to (I think) find ourselves struggling with labels, too - or at least, I&#039;ve been in that position.

The older I get, the more I&#039;m finding that it&#039;s best to just not worry about what other people think (in a positive way), though it hasn&#039;t been an easy think for me to achieve, and I&#039;m still working on it. it&#039;s worth the sweat, because I feel far more comfortable in my own skin than I&#039;d ever imagined possible, and much more relaxed, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those of us who&#8217;ve been single over the long term tend to (I think) find ourselves struggling with labels, too &#8211; or at least, I&#8217;ve been in that position.</p>
<p>The older I get, the more I&#8217;m finding that it&#8217;s best to just not worry about what other people think (in a positive way), though it hasn&#8217;t been an easy think for me to achieve, and I&#8217;m still working on it. it&#8217;s worth the sweat, because I feel far more comfortable in my own skin than I&#8217;d ever imagined possible, and much more relaxed, too.</p>
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		<title>By: jaklumen</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/#comment-1662</link>
		<dc:creator>jaklumen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 09:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-1662</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Vanessa:&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;assumptions made about persons who “look” gay or lesbian&lt;/i&gt;

Well, yeah... it goes both ways, too... not so much assumptions about &quot;straight&quot; but &quot;straight and breeder&quot;.  It&#039;s not necessarily look and mannerisms, it&#039;s kinda a judgment of perceptions of overall circumstances.

I remember taking my daughter to Chuck E. Cheese-- one of many &quot;daddy-daughter&quot; dates to allow my wife time to clean up without kids under foot (my son was still an infant at the time).

I remember seeing a couple with a baby girl-- young toddler age.  Two women.  Yeah, one looked &quot;butch&quot; and one looked &quot;femme&quot;, but it was the overall scenario that seemed to suggest they were lesbian moms, if you will.

Apparently they were on their guard being out and about in a primarily &quot;straight&quot; scene-- they kept their voices low and acted very nervous the whole time.  I wanted so very much to say, &quot;You have a beautiful daughter; I&#039;m here with mine... and I don&#039;t care about your situation, you&#039;re here with your kid, and I want to relate.&quot;

But there seemed to be a wall.  It really seemed like there was a quick assumption I was straight.  Well... as you obviously know by now... I&#039;m not.  But there was no way I could passively communicate that-- to say, &quot;well, I&#039;m not like them, I&#039;m safe to approach.&quot;

Again, that&#039;s why I don&#039;t like dichotomies.  There&#039;s either an assumption that someone is gay, or someone is straight.  I&#039;ll tell you, those of us in the middle, we get our own grief.

Maybe you remember that Oprah episode where a man and a woman married, had a kid, and then realized they had a homosexual orientation-- and then found same-sex relationships.  It was funny to watch Oprah say out loud she&#039;d never heard of anything like that before.  Too funny, because I&#039;d seen it before, and I am partly living that myself, even though my relationship is a heterosexual one.  It was obvious that they all still operated as a family.

Now, obviously, there is no provision in my faith for homosexual relationships.  I sincerely doubt that any will be made.  BUT... family is so emphasized in my faith, and really, I would just like to be able to relate, even to families with such relationships.  I&#039;m not interested in religious objections-- I would just like to share the joys of a family experience with anyone experiencing similar joys, without any fetters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Vanessa:</b> <i>assumptions made about persons who “look” gay or lesbian</i></p>
<p>Well, yeah&#8230; it goes both ways, too&#8230; not so much assumptions about &#8220;straight&#8221; but &#8220;straight and breeder&#8221;.  It&#8217;s not necessarily look and mannerisms, it&#8217;s kinda a judgment of perceptions of overall circumstances.</p>
<p>I remember taking my daughter to Chuck E. Cheese&#8211; one of many &#8220;daddy-daughter&#8221; dates to allow my wife time to clean up without kids under foot (my son was still an infant at the time).</p>
<p>I remember seeing a couple with a baby girl&#8211; young toddler age.  Two women.  Yeah, one looked &#8220;butch&#8221; and one looked &#8220;femme&#8221;, but it was the overall scenario that seemed to suggest they were lesbian moms, if you will.</p>
<p>Apparently they were on their guard being out and about in a primarily &#8220;straight&#8221; scene&#8211; they kept their voices low and acted very nervous the whole time.  I wanted so very much to say, &#8220;You have a beautiful daughter; I&#8217;m here with mine&#8230; and I don&#8217;t care about your situation, you&#8217;re here with your kid, and I want to relate.&#8221;</p>
<p>But there seemed to be a wall.  It really seemed like there was a quick assumption I was straight.  Well&#8230; as you obviously know by now&#8230; I&#8217;m not.  But there was no way I could passively communicate that&#8211; to say, &#8220;well, I&#8217;m not like them, I&#8217;m safe to approach.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, that&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t like dichotomies.  There&#8217;s either an assumption that someone is gay, or someone is straight.  I&#8217;ll tell you, those of us in the middle, we get our own grief.</p>
<p>Maybe you remember that Oprah episode where a man and a woman married, had a kid, and then realized they had a homosexual orientation&#8211; and then found same-sex relationships.  It was funny to watch Oprah say out loud she&#8217;d never heard of anything like that before.  Too funny, because I&#8217;d seen it before, and I am partly living that myself, even though my relationship is a heterosexual one.  It was obvious that they all still operated as a family.</p>
<p>Now, obviously, there is no provision in my faith for homosexual relationships.  I sincerely doubt that any will be made.  BUT&#8230; family is so emphasized in my faith, and really, I would just like to be able to relate, even to families with such relationships.  I&#8217;m not interested in religious objections&#8211; I would just like to share the joys of a family experience with anyone experiencing similar joys, without any fetters.</p>
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		<title>By: goldnsilver</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/#comment-1661</link>
		<dc:creator>goldnsilver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 01:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-1661</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t really care about judging people by the way they look - after all the external appearance is a message to others. 

If they want to dress like an emo, I&#039;m going to think &#039;harden up and stop pitying yourself&#039;. Not everyone who dresses &#039;alternative&#039; is a victim or original - many of them are following a trend and (as Leroy Glinchy said) will look down on you if you&#039;re not as &#039;trendy&#039; as them. This is very relevant on the gay scene, particularly amongst lesbians. My sister is gay and is constantly thought of as being striaght just because she isn&#039;t butch.

Maybe its because I couldn&#039;t give a fuck if someone judged me based off my appearance, so I really don&#039;t see why others feel get upset about it.

Ha, I guess this could link in with your Shared Experience post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really care about judging people by the way they look &#8211; after all the external appearance is a message to others. </p>
<p>If they want to dress like an emo, I&#8217;m going to think &#8216;harden up and stop pitying yourself&#8217;. Not everyone who dresses &#8216;alternative&#8217; is a victim or original &#8211; many of them are following a trend and (as Leroy Glinchy said) will look down on you if you&#8217;re not as &#8216;trendy&#8217; as them. This is very relevant on the gay scene, particularly amongst lesbians. My sister is gay and is constantly thought of as being striaght just because she isn&#8217;t butch.</p>
<p>Maybe its because I couldn&#8217;t give a fuck if someone judged me based off my appearance, so I really don&#8217;t see why others feel get upset about it.</p>
<p>Ha, I guess this could link in with your Shared Experience post.</p>
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		<title>By: Vanessa</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/#comment-1628</link>
		<dc:creator>Vanessa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 13:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-1628</guid>
		<description>We so often as humans, are so prone to viewing a person and making assumptions based on what we see.  Nothing could be further from compassion and taking the time to REALLY get to know someone; there is always so much more below the surface, as it sounds like for you, Leroy.  I try to always combat the assumptions made about persons who &quot;look&quot; gay or lesbian; it really demeans the whole idea of what it is like to have a homosexual orientation........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We so often as humans, are so prone to viewing a person and making assumptions based on what we see.  Nothing could be further from compassion and taking the time to REALLY get to know someone; there is always so much more below the surface, as it sounds like for you, Leroy.  I try to always combat the assumptions made about persons who &#8220;look&#8221; gay or lesbian; it really demeans the whole idea of what it is like to have a homosexual orientation&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Leroy Glinchy</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/#comment-1622</link>
		<dc:creator>Leroy Glinchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 21:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-1622</guid>
		<description>I really try not to judge other people, but it&#039;s tough when other people are always there to judge you. I am a white male who often wears business casual. I have, on occassion, gone to anarchist events. I always get the cold shoulder. This is also true in ghettos where I frequent. People always think I am to blame for all the problems in the world. 

The funny thing is nobody has more radical politics than I do. My radicalism is in my mind and in my lifestyle, but not how I dress. I have a job because I have a lot of debts to pay from the days when I was not so bright. I like people of all kinds, but they seem to have a major problem with me.

The best part is that my wife thinks I look like a racist skinhead which is funny because I have married outside my race. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really try not to judge other people, but it&#8217;s tough when other people are always there to judge you. I am a white male who often wears business casual. I have, on occassion, gone to anarchist events. I always get the cold shoulder. This is also true in ghettos where I frequent. People always think I am to blame for all the problems in the world. </p>
<p>The funny thing is nobody has more radical politics than I do. My radicalism is in my mind and in my lifestyle, but not how I dress. I have a job because I have a lot of debts to pay from the days when I was not so bright. I like people of all kinds, but they seem to have a major problem with me.</p>
<p>The best part is that my wife thinks I look like a racist skinhead which is funny because I have married outside my race. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: e2tc</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/#comment-1619</link>
		<dc:creator>e2tc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 17:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-1619</guid>
		<description>The older I get, the further away I am (in time) from the young person I once was - with the attitude, the shredded and repatched jeans, the now-cliched Indian cotton blouses, etc. etc.

Thank you for reminding me to look &lt;i&gt;into&lt;/i&gt; peoples&#039; eyes, rather than &lt;i&gt;at&lt;/i&gt; them. There is a world of difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The older I get, the further away I am (in time) from the young person I once was &#8211; with the attitude, the shredded and repatched jeans, the now-cliched Indian cotton blouses, etc. etc.</p>
<p>Thank you for reminding me to look <i>into</i> peoples&#8217; eyes, rather than <i>at</i> them. There is a world of difference.</p>
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		<title>By: The Green Witch</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/#comment-1615</link>
		<dc:creator>The Green Witch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 15:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-1615</guid>
		<description>This post is honest, refreshing, balanced and thoughtful, and I thank you for getting it out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is honest, refreshing, balanced and thoughtful, and I thank you for getting it out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Alexander</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/#comment-1607</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 13:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-1607</guid>
		<description>Great post.  Your always making me think...

BA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  Your always making me think&#8230;</p>
<p>BA</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsey</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/#comment-1606</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 11:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-1606</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;M54&lt;/b&gt;:  (((HUGS)))  Stretching the brain muscles can hurt, but it&#039;s good exercise!

&lt;b&gt;Stephanie, Vanessa, wvhillcountry&lt;/b&gt;:  Thanks!

&lt;b&gt;Anita&lt;/b&gt;:  Ooh, do I get a badge!  I love badges!

&lt;b&gt;Jaklumen&lt;/b&gt;:  Poverty tends to bind people together, riches tend to cast them apart.  (Heard that line somewhere, for the life of me can&#039;t remember where...)

&lt;b&gt;Tony&lt;/b&gt;:  *lol*  OMG.  If you ever do that, have someone videotape it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>M54</b>:  (((HUGS)))  Stretching the brain muscles can hurt, but it&#8217;s good exercise!</p>
<p><b>Stephanie, Vanessa, wvhillcountry</b>:  Thanks!</p>
<p><b>Anita</b>:  Ooh, do I get a badge!  I love badges!</p>
<p><b>Jaklumen</b>:  Poverty tends to bind people together, riches tend to cast them apart.  (Heard that line somewhere, for the life of me can&#8217;t remember where&#8230;)</p>
<p><b>Tony</b>:  *lol*  OMG.  If you ever do that, have someone videotape it!</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/05/20/marginalization/#comment-1596</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 05:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-1596</guid>
		<description>Fantastic post.  Beautifully written, and so touching.

I grew up as an outcast during the post columbine years and had friends who wore the trenchcoats amidst the constant physical and social berations because of their choice.  The fact was the trenchcoat became a risque fashion statement back in those days from films like the Matrix.  

These days I can&#039;t help but smile when I see emo&#039;s.  They look so sad and their whole appearance seems to amplify it to utter desolee.  I just want to pinch their cheeks and give them a hug, mostly because I know they&#039;d hate the gesture completely, but a part of me simply feels the urge to meet their theatrical sadness with an equally showy expression of joy and love.  I can&#039;t hate them, for I was a frustrated teen too once.  Lucky for me I found a healthy outlet to express myself which allowed me to privately indulge my inner creative freak and sating that desire so that I could become a normal seeming member of society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic post.  Beautifully written, and so touching.</p>
<p>I grew up as an outcast during the post columbine years and had friends who wore the trenchcoats amidst the constant physical and social berations because of their choice.  The fact was the trenchcoat became a risque fashion statement back in those days from films like the Matrix.  </p>
<p>These days I can&#8217;t help but smile when I see emo&#8217;s.  They look so sad and their whole appearance seems to amplify it to utter desolee.  I just want to pinch their cheeks and give them a hug, mostly because I know they&#8217;d hate the gesture completely, but a part of me simply feels the urge to meet their theatrical sadness with an equally showy expression of joy and love.  I can&#8217;t hate them, for I was a frustrated teen too once.  Lucky for me I found a healthy outlet to express myself which allowed me to privately indulge my inner creative freak and sating that desire so that I could become a normal seeming member of society.</p>
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