I love you. You’re going to BURN IN HELL.
“I’m telling you that you’re going to burn in hell because I care about you.”
“You feel conflicted because Satan is fighting for your mind.”
“You are depressed because you are living in sin and God is convicting you.”
Those are all lines that might be believable if uttered by a close and trusted friend. But all too often I see language like that being hurled not by friends and close family, but by total strangers in blog comments. I see people callously judging the choices of total strangers, saying that they do so not out of distaste or hatred but motivated by God and God’s love.
Perhaps on some level that is true. But the picture it paints for the world is not one of a vibrant bride of Christ wooing the world, but of a hard-hearted people offering up cups full of bitter condemnation. There is a very simple truth here: You have to have people’s trust if you want them to believe you. A horrible truth uttered by a stranger is immediately mistrusted. You know in those movies, where the big muscled man tells the frail scared woman that she has to trust him? You know how she always does? That’s not reality. People don’t trust strangers, no matter how frightened those people are and how right the stranger is.
People trust friends.
The backhand to that truth is that friends don’t tell friends they are going to burn in Hell. You may tell a friend you are concerned for them, you may tell them you think they are making bad choices, you may tell them that you think they are hurting themselves… But the callous language generally used by Christians with strangers is not the kind of language you use with people you care about.
Christians: ask yourself this question-
When was the last time you heard someone in the Church tell someone else in the Church that Satan was messing with their head? That they would burn in Hell? That they were flouting God’s salvation?
You may have heard it, from time to time, especially in Bible Belt land… But that isn’t the normative language because it is hurtful. That… and if someone is in the church, we don’t use the “us and them” language. Saying you are going to burn in hell, you need salvation, you are in a war for your soul implicitly implies that I am not, thus drawing a line between speaker and hearer.
That line, that thin black line, makes it almost impossible to truly win people over to love. Why? Because it destroys trust, it creates a deep division between hearts. The true way to show people love is not by drawing lines but by crossing borders, sitting with them, listening to them, offering them the same trust that we hope they will offer us.
Someone has to trust first, love first, offer forgiveness first. So often Christians seem to think that it’s the “unsaved masses” that need to do so. Why? There is no prerequisite to salvation.
Thoughts, additions, disagreement? Log it in the comments, please. 
littletiger replied:
Lindsey – I love reading your blog because it always makes me think. My pastor just did a series in church about the views the rest of the world has about Christians – and one of the areas that he addressed was the us vs them language and the way we Christians are judgmental. His suggestion for the members of the church was to remember that we don’t have the right to judge anyone and that we need to focus on loving and accepting everyone around us – because that the only way to show Christ in us.
June 6, 2008 at 2:41 pm. Permalink.
needle replied:
I have been watching your blog for a couple of months now and I love it, but I had to comment on this. I know exactly where this comes from– I’ve been coming out the past few months to very close church friends (practically my family), and for the most part, THIS has been their reaction. If they weren’t such Internet-phobes, I’d point them here to explain why I just don’t like spending time with them anymore– these words hurt. Thank you for this post. Thank you very much. It makes me feel a little less alone.
June 6, 2008 at 3:26 pm. Permalink.
e2tc replied:
Thank you, Lindsey. Beautifully written.
June 6, 2008 at 6:42 pm. Permalink.
Sarahjane replied:
Lindsey, I always look forward to reading your thoughts at least once a day. I just don’t get the whole line of condemnation and anger directed toward others who don’t walk the Christian way. I was greatly humbled at the great number of people who accepted me as Sarah from my church; that was the last line I had to cross to live full time. It took almost 4 years for a small group of church member to decide they couldn’t stand beside me whenever I went to the Communion rail. They refused to acknowledge or to look for Christ in my face and left the church.
But the church is stronger now without all that nasty hateful uttering.
Thank you again for your careful and insightful thoughts.
June 6, 2008 at 7:47 pm. Permalink.
ybtolerant replied:
GAH! absolute truth. I like you. You seem like maybe you might enjoy the book Be Intolerant by Ryan Dobson. You ever read that? Here on my website is a book that I review, and wooooow … yah I just think you would love it.
http://ybtolerant.wordpress.com/gods-books/
talk about preaching and still loving people. being intolerant of their lifestyle and telling them that you still love them and they need help … I mean you say it all. We must Love before we can save.
Agreed.
-Amber
June 6, 2008 at 7:51 pm. Permalink.
wep601 replied:
I have been behind on my reading, and am catching up a bit today.
The part that really stands out in this post is “friends don’t tell friends they are going to burn in Hell” EXACTLY!!! WHEW! You call it out don’t you! Thank you for your creativity and sensitivity!
Off to read more!
June 6, 2008 at 8:17 pm. Permalink.
ybtolerant replied:
(I left a response on my blog post and here)
Well actually no – I took it back. LOL
I can’t apoligize for the church actually. Even the Bible says there will never be a perfect church. And to be quite honest me family and I are anti-church. When I go – I love the sermons I sit through but I have a hard time with the way they function and the way they hold themselves. each one is different, and each one has its perks. My family and I all have church on Sundays where we put on praise music and clean the house. It’s fun and we all bond, and we all get closer to God. I like it.
God is life!!
June 6, 2008 at 10:30 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
Ooooooh!!! Do you remember me losing a 30 year friendship over I was gonna burn in hell – my blog says so? Remember when I asked you for scriptures to try and reason with my “friend”?
I find it amazing that people feel the need to condemn/judge others to hell. Why? What is the point? Is it in efforts to save the person they are condemning’s soul? Is it to feel superior? Or is it simply that they have to feel this way to justify their own belief system? To be honest, I have no clue.
I also wonder why they choose only those passages of hate and fear. Compared to the rest of the bible those passages are few. Jesus teaches us to love one another as we love ourselves and our family. He doesn’t teach descrimination of race, color, gender, or sexuality. He embraced everyone.
God is alot smarter than we are. Don’t you think that he would send his message down to us in many ways so that we could receive it and accept it to our understanding? Since no two of us are alike, how could we possibly agree on the same thing in the EXACT same way.
I don’t know. I just see the passage in the bible about not judging others… that God alone will sit in judgement of our actions and I think that is right on.
Ever thought that it might be a sin to condemn someone to hell? After all, that goes against the teachings of the bible to do so and not be loving, tollerant, turning the other cheek, etc. Isn’t one of the comandments “Love Thy Neighbor”?
June 7, 2008 at 3:27 am. Permalink.
Lindsey replied:
ybtolerant: I won’t cross post this comment as I’m cramped for time, but I will say this- some people are called to the church, some people are called to the fields, some people are called to go in between, and God needs all of them. You and I both have peculiar places to fill. I will apologize for the Church, because some people need to hear how much God is grieved by the wounds Christians have created- but you, you are fine. You are walking out your own thing, and I’m sure you can find the “fellowship of believers” outside of the four walls and boxed in ideal that so many people think of as Church. You don’t need religion to follow Christ, you just need the Bible and a good head on your shoulders.
Amber: I do remember, I remember very well! And it grieves me as much now as it did then. Um, read my comment to ybtolerant, the second half. That goes for you too!
June 7, 2008 at 3:45 am. Permalink.
free2liv replied:
Great article. People aren’t interested in what they’re doing wrong. But they are hungry for hope, purpose and a better quality of life. Jesus came to give life and that more abundantly not guilt, condemnation and the feeling that you’ll never get it right. This may offend some, but religion offers the latter. Real Christianity offers a relationship with a loving God, forgiveness, hope, abundant life, freedom and of course – eternal life. That’s the Good News I want to be spreading!
June 7, 2008 at 1:28 pm. Permalink.
John Shore replied:
Amen to this. Wonderful. Thank you.
June 7, 2008 at 3:31 pm. Permalink.
Barry Lauterwasser replied:
I think the only request from Christ was for us to love him, each other and let his love shine through. Be a living example of his love and let who will come, come. Those that don’t, there is nothing you can do about. It will be between that person and God.
I think many people forget the simplicity in the bible…I firmly believe it is summed up in the Golden Rule. Life, love, and happiness are very simple things to achieve, if we let go of all the things that we are holding onto, in order to make us happy.
Kindness, love, and living life are simple things, if we simply let them be simple.
peace
June 7, 2008 at 4:03 pm. Permalink.
Lance replied:
I think I understand where you’re coming from, and yet I hope you don’t mean that it is unloving to warn people out of hell.
No one did this better than Jesus, who used the term more than anyone else in the NT. He loved people, but perhaps loved them out of hell, more than loved them into heaven.
While we must be tactful with hard truths (certainly not taking joy in preaching the disturbing doctrine of hell), I have noticed that the apostles in Acts never told the lost that God loved them (even though that may in fact be true). If anything, they told the lost that they were under God’s judgment. But sometimes warnings are the most loving things we can issue (albeit with love and compassion).
June 7, 2008 at 6:34 pm. Permalink.
kendallmck replied:
Um, I have news for you – atheists aren’t stupid. We’re not like children. You can’t hide peas in mashed potatoes or try to spoon feed us religion with the airplane game and think we’re going to chomp it right up. Cloaking your religious judgment in love and concern isn’t fooling anybody – your disingenuousness shines. We have been laughing our a**es off over your “love the sinner, hate the sin” schitck for years . Jig is up, my friends. I know it must be really tough to coincide your self-righteous judgment with that whole “love thy neighbor” thing, and the brilliant way you folks have managed to justify your behavior is claim that your judgment IS love, but none of us are buying it. That s*it is mad hateful, yo. Sorry.
Frankly I’d much rather have someone give me the “I love you, you’re going to hell” out of the gate than spend months trying to carve out a “trusting” relationship with the ulterior motive of conversion. At least the first way I know you’re an a**hole right off the bat, instead of finding out the friend I loved and cared for was really just “earning my trust” so s/he could eventually hit me over the head with the Jesus bat.
Whether you tell a stranger they’re going to hell or tell your friend they’re going to hell makes no difference. Either way, it’s all hate – and the kind you’re preaching is the absolute worst. Trying to earn someone’s trust so they’ll be more susceptible to your preaching is manipulation at its absolute ugliest. I mean, really. Can’t you people just leave non-Christians alone?
Why don’t you try creating real relationships based on ACTUAL trust, love, understanding, empathy, AND respect for differences, with zero ulterior motives? Why don’t you try, just once, to leave the hopes of a 100% Christian world at the door and respect everyone’s right to have their own beliefs? The Christians I am friends with have managed to do this, so I know it’s possible. We even have conversations about morals, ethics, and religion without it veering into “saving my sinful, non-believing soul” territory! I know, right?! Amazing! It’s called “being an intelligent adult.”
June 7, 2008 at 7:10 pm. Permalink.
Sam replied:
I heard Wayne Jacobsen describe similar tactics with this illustration. Starting with hell in approaches to evangelism is like telling your children about Disneyworld. But rather than focusing on Disneyworld and the goodness a child associates with it, you tell them that they better get in the car now or you’re going to beat them with a stick! Then the excitment of Disneyworld is eclipse by the punishment awaiting those who refuse to go.
The point is that if you properly convey the glory real relationship with God, rarely do you need to threaten them with punishment. The gospel is not about someone NOT going to hell. People who accept God for the realities of his love and value the opportunity to commune with the Savior have a much better chance of life transformation rather than outward conformity.
June 7, 2008 at 7:22 pm. Permalink.
kendallmck replied:
“But sometimes warnings are the most loving things we can issue (albeit with love and compassion).”
Oh Christ. I can’t read all the comments because I’ll be here all day, but I just have to point out that you’re “warning” us about nothing. Your “truth” isn’t universal, proven, sure, or anybody’s reality but your own.
As much as you don’t want to admit this, you really don’t KNOW if we’re going to hell – you’re guessing (just like we are, admittedly, guessing that we’re not). NOBODY KNOWS! Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, Muslims had it right and all the Christians will be punished in the afterlife? Buddhists? Atheists? Scientologists? All religion is speculation, so to believe that “warning” people about the dangers of being “sinners” is the same public service as warning people to wear their seatbelt and drive carefully is the height of immaturity, delusion, and self-absorption – and implying that you’re doing so “for our own good” is condescending and infantilizing.
Once more: YOUR truth is not universal. Neither is mine. I don’t go around “warning” Christians that all of their preaching, praying, and going to church is a big, fat, waste of time, even though that’s what I believe. Whatever – it’s not my place. You’re free to do and believe whatever you want without someone wagging their finger at you to save you from yourself. It’s too bad I’m not extended the same courtesy.
June 7, 2008 at 7:32 pm. Permalink.
Lindsey replied:
Kendall: Um… way to really misinterpret my post. I wasn’t saying, “hey, everyone, go form disingenuous relationships!”
If you read my blog with regularity you’ll realize that I’ve no desire to convert those that don’t want to be converted. In fact I regularly post things like saying that people need to stop trying to legislate morality and bludgeon people into righteousness, as everyone has a right to live whatever life they desire so long as they don’t harm anyone else. (and by harm, I mean, like, rape and murder. Not gay marriage. Gay marriage is great. I’m glad California got it’s stuff together.)
What I was saying in this post is:
1) You shouldn’t tell strangers you think they are going to hell, as it’s rude and unproductive
and
2) you shouldn’t tell friends they are going to hell, as it’s callous and cruel and also unproductive.
Please, don’t rush to judgment about what you think I am based off of your past experiences with other Christians. I am NOT like them.
Truly.
June 7, 2008 at 7:40 pm. Permalink.
Martin replied:
Ehm….No one has the right to say to another “youre going to Hell”. Only God can judge. ONLY GOD.
June 7, 2008 at 7:52 pm. Permalink.
Lance replied:
Kendall, you’re right—it takes faith to believe what we cannot see. You have faith that there is no heaven/hell; I have faith that there is.
June 7, 2008 at 8:37 pm. Permalink.
jessicaabruno replied:
Please don’t even get me started on this.
June 7, 2008 at 8:44 pm. Permalink.
tankekorset replied:
Its very simple, folks. We christians cant judge who goes where. If we do, thats the greatest sin of all. Then we are ignorant and arrogant.
June 7, 2008 at 9:00 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
free2liv – that is absolutely beautifully put. That is the kind of good news I want to share too!!!!!
June 7, 2008 at 10:26 pm. Permalink.
Todd Dobson replied:
Hello Lindsey,
I said I would not read any more religious blogs for a while because I caused such a fire storm this week that simply drained me emotionally. So when I saw your headline I past it by, but something kept bringing me back to it.
I am glad that it caught my attention bringing me to read it finally. This was an exceptional post and so insightful. I am a man of God and I love the place it has taken in my heart. I ran from spirituality for so many years because of text just exactly like what you wrote. It is why I’ve been seeing so many blogs denouncing religion and Christianity from our younger generations.
You put wonderful words to thoughts running through my head, but I am often times labeled by Christians as a Non-Believer due to my altruistic views on spirituality and because I request that religious people actually strive to live a life more appropriately disseminated by Jesus – to Love, Honor & Respect all human kind.
Thank you for this post and I hope to see more from you.
Yours truly – Todd M. Dobson
June 8, 2008 at 4:14 am. Permalink.
Sane Christian replied:
Lindsey,
While you and I may not agree on everything, I’m sure we can agree on one: We both have a desire to lead people to Christ.
I would tell one of my friends that they were going to hell. It’s not a judgement call when I tell someone this. The bible clearly states that one must believe in God and Christ Jesus to enter into heaven.
I attend a Jesus believing, bible following church. The reality is that every one of us faces demonic attacks every day. It is a spiritual battle. The church I attend we hold one another accountable. I have told someone that Satan is trying to get a hold of their life. People have told me where I am falling short and Satan is trying to knock me down. It is how we encourage each other and build one another up. By holding one another to Gods higher call.
There is a war for the unsaved persons soul going on. There is no longer a war for the saved persons soul. It has been bought an payed for by the blood of Christ.
Jesus told people often that they would go to hell. He didn’t pull any punches with people.
I’m not going to either. I can love someone, and listen and be compassionate. But I must also be honest with them and tell them that there are expectations for one to reach heaven.
June 8, 2008 at 6:10 am. Permalink.
wvhillcountry replied:
Lindsey, I have watched this post twist and turn and my thoughts have followed along. I like the way you summed it up.
“1) You shouldn’t tell strangers you think they are going to hell, as it’s rude and unproductive
and
2) you shouldn’t tell friends they are going to hell, as it’s callous and cruel and also unproductive.”
I have often heard people say that they would never be scared into heaven or out of hell. They needed to be loved into heaven. Good post
June 8, 2008 at 12:17 pm. Permalink.
lesbiansaidwhat replied:
Thanks for this awesome post Lindsey. You are so right in so many ways.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Ceara
June 8, 2008 at 4:27 pm. Permalink.
Lance replied:
It may be important to distinguish “scaring people into hell” and “warning people out of hell.”
Regardless what we hear about “loving people into heaven,” both Jesus and the apostles spent a considerable amount of time warning people about God’s wrath, perhaps because they knew that issuing such warnings was loving, not hateful.
I warn my kids not to run in the street, because I love them, not because I hate them.
In the book of Acts, there are two things we modern-folk often stress that are (suprisingly) missing in the apostles’ gospel proclamations:
1) They never tell unbelievers that God loves them. They usually speak of God’s judgment, though, yet do we regard Peter, Paul, etc. as “unloving”?
2) In their evangelism, talk of Heaven is mysteriously absent, even though it is a benefit of salvation. In Acts, the apostles encourage people under God’s judgment to repent, so that they will not have to endure an eternity of God’s wrath. Was this unloving?
In short, to assume that it is unloving to warn people of God’s coming wrath may sound kind, but good news without bad news is far from biblical.
June 8, 2008 at 8:07 pm. Permalink.
Lindsey replied:
Everyone: I wish I had time to respond to every individual comment, but I simply don’t. So for EVERYONE who read this post, thank you for the loaning of your eyes, and I hope it meant something to you, even if you disagreed with me.
John: You are welcome. It was my pleasure to write this (even if it was inspired by a less than wonderful set of comments)
Sam: That is a great analogy
Ceara: mucho much mental hugs heading your way.
And for everyone who commented saying that Jesus talked about God’s wrath a lot, I just now wrote a post on that subject as a comment would be way, way, way too long.
June 8, 2008 at 9:03 pm. Permalink.
Lindsey replied:
Oh, and Todd Dobson, I consider it an honor to be part of this moment for you, and thank God for redeeming all things! As long as there is love, there is hope.
And faith, as well.
June 8, 2008 at 9:04 pm. Permalink.
Nick replied:
‘..the callous language generally used by Christians with strangers is not the kind of language you use with people you care about.’
Yes, and especially on the internet. Until the Microsoft update comes along that enables us to gauge the health of people’s eternal souls over the internet, epithets about hell and satan are simply too huge in theological scope, too momentous, to throw about. Whenever I see someone accuse someone else of being ‘unchristlike’ online, I wince. ‘Unchristlike’ is either a trivially true description of anybody who is not Christ, or an astonishingly over-reaching commentary on the spiritual state of a fellow child of God.
Re the idea that you were recommending a softly-softly approach to manipulating heathens into buying our religious wares.. Familiarity with your blog could easily dispel any atheist’s suspicions; but I’d like to point out that such accusations never lead to anything better than a stalemate. 99% of Christians are scared to death of evangelism; nevertheless, if we believe (in any meaningful sense of the term) that a God exists who can be accepted or rejected, and that important consequences hang on the decision, then even if we’re dead wrong, our beliefs entail a moral duty to get involved in the dirty work of evangelism – at least (perhaps at best) by demonstrating the love that Jesus said would mark us out as his disciples. If we didn’t do that, an atheist could quite justifiably accuse us of believing in heaven but not inviting them there, and believing in hell but not warning them – that is, of believing that heaven is ours and not theirs, and hell is theirs and not ours. The trouble is, as soon as you confront the necessary question of how to communicate your beliefs, you face accusations of manipulation, and of failing to extend them the courtesy of leaving them alone. As though we all form our beliefs in a vacuum wherein nobody is permitted to try to persuade each other! You’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t.
So to speak.
Another great post, and very thought-provoking comments.
June 12, 2008 at 8:30 pm. Permalink.
Lindsey replied:
NICK COMMENTED! *does a little dance*
Sorry, it’s just when I realized who you were I got all goofy. Good, good points. People who aren’t Christians need to realize that most Christians will talk about their faith not because they are trying to win people over (well, maybe partly) but also simply because our faith is significant to us and a significant part of us. That doesn’t mean that every relationship a Christian has is disingenuous.
I’ve had a few odd experiences in my life. The first is a time when someone found out after knowing me for several weeks that I was a Christian and they were offended I wasn’t up front because they didn’t want me to assume that they were a bigot and wouldn’t be friends with me. Another time someone found out after just a few days and thought that my only reason for befriending them was to win them over. They were startled to find out that I wasn’t really trying to win them over, I just wanted someone to go to the movies with. It’s interesting, because Christians are left with an odd choice of deciding when and how to “out” themselves as Christians, knowing that the fact we adhere to certain beliefs will leave people with awkward stereotypes.
But things can change.
June 13, 2008 at 1:02 pm. Permalink.
Nick replied:
Hey – going goofy is MY party trick.
I haunt your blog a lot, but I have this terror of leaving comments. As you know, I have brevity issues…
It is a weird situation about ’self-outing’. Once people know you’re a Christian, it’s fair for them to assume that much of what you do is coloured by that commitment. Which puts them in the odd position of wondering if your normal behaviour is just an act. It’s not that you assume people are bigoted; you just want to start the friendship on the basis of what you have in common. Everyone does this to some extent.
I’m really stuck about this whole self-outing business. As someone who’s morose, emotionally arid and a habitual doubter, I never feel much of an advertisement for the Good News, and so dread telling people…
June 15, 2008 at 10:06 am. Permalink.