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	<title>Comments on: Self Mutilation, Self Hatred, Suicide</title>
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	<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/</link>
	<description>I am a gay-affirming pro-choice left-wing loony pacifist environmental nutjob Christian!</description>
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		<title>By: Lindsey</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/#comment-2263</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-2263</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;goldnsilver&lt;/b&gt;:  Sorry it&#039;s taken me so long to respond.  I understand that it is selfish to take yourself away from those who love you- obviously so.  But that isn&#039;t what someone is thinking of when they commit suicide.  They likely believe that their family is &lt;b&gt;better off&lt;/b&gt; without them, that their living causes people pain, that if they continue to live the pain will continue.  I can attest to that from my own experience.  My thought wasn&#039;t for the pain I believed my family would feel were I gone, but the relief they would feel from no longer having to deal with me.

Obviously I was wrong, but I believed myself to be right at the time.  I was acting out of self-interest and a kind of selfishness, but I didn&#039;t believe that to be the case.

I hope that makes sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>goldnsilver</b>:  Sorry it&#8217;s taken me so long to respond.  I understand that it is selfish to take yourself away from those who love you- obviously so.  But that isn&#8217;t what someone is thinking of when they commit suicide.  They likely believe that their family is <b>better off</b> without them, that their living causes people pain, that if they continue to live the pain will continue.  I can attest to that from my own experience.  My thought wasn&#8217;t for the pain I believed my family would feel were I gone, but the relief they would feel from no longer having to deal with me.</p>
<p>Obviously I was wrong, but I believed myself to be right at the time.  I was acting out of self-interest and a kind of selfishness, but I didn&#8217;t believe that to be the case.</p>
<p>I hope that makes sense.</p>
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		<title>By: goldnsilver</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/#comment-2155</link>
		<dc:creator>goldnsilver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 01:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-2155</guid>
		<description>I am a person who has never experienced depression, I have never been suicidal. My life has actually been very good so far, and I am truly a lucky person.

So, without meaning to be presumptious in asking, please answer a question for me.

How is suicide not selfish?

There was a boy who in my grade who&#039;s brother killed himself. His family was left wondering &#039;why?&#039;. He has probably emotionally scarred them all for life, and in turn perhaps created suicidal thoughts in them all. On top of that, they weren&#039;t a wealthy family, and they had to suddenly find the cash for a funeral. After all the expenses this can come to thousands of dollars.

How was this &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; selfish? I am aware that I can&#039;t comprehend the pain he must have gone through to kill himself - but that is not the point. The point is that it was a selfish act. To me, someone who kills themselves (unless they have no one that loves them), dismisses the love others give in turn for self obsession.

I do not mean to hurt anyone. I just want to know, I want to understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a person who has never experienced depression, I have never been suicidal. My life has actually been very good so far, and I am truly a lucky person.</p>
<p>So, without meaning to be presumptious in asking, please answer a question for me.</p>
<p>How is suicide not selfish?</p>
<p>There was a boy who in my grade who&#8217;s brother killed himself. His family was left wondering &#8216;why?&#8217;. He has probably emotionally scarred them all for life, and in turn perhaps created suicidal thoughts in them all. On top of that, they weren&#8217;t a wealthy family, and they had to suddenly find the cash for a funeral. After all the expenses this can come to thousands of dollars.</p>
<p>How was this <i>not</i> selfish? I am aware that I can&#8217;t comprehend the pain he must have gone through to kill himself &#8211; but that is not the point. The point is that it was a selfish act. To me, someone who kills themselves (unless they have no one that loves them), dismisses the love others give in turn for self obsession.</p>
<p>I do not mean to hurt anyone. I just want to know, I want to understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Phew is it another one? &#171; SanityFound&#8217;s Rambling&#8217;s</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/#comment-2025</link>
		<dc:creator>Phew is it another one? &#171; SanityFound&#8217;s Rambling&#8217;s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-2025</guid>
		<description>[...] for words, the heart she puts into them and her wisdom never stops astounding me. Her post on Self Mutilation, Self Hatred and Suicide blew me away only to be followed by Modesty is about more than skin has really stuck with me. Go [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for words, the heart she puts into them and her wisdom never stops astounding me. Her post on Self Mutilation, Self Hatred and Suicide blew me away only to be followed by Modesty is about more than skin has really stuck with me. Go [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ybtolerant</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/#comment-1987</link>
		<dc:creator>ybtolerant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-1987</guid>
		<description>Brilliantly said!!

I have been through all three of these things in my life - and I can say they were dark times. I can&#039;t say I have fully come out of the self hatred state but I do not harm my body any more.
Those of us who ahte ourselves have our own reasons, and telling us that we shouldn&#039;t is a no-no. you can&#039;t tell people what to feel, or that they are wrong in what they feel, you have to show them you care about them. Leaving them in the dirt is what they expect. Somedays I want to be lost on an island just to avoid people and somedays I just wish no one knew me because I feel like the devil. 

These things in life aren&#039;t just phases and not everyone goes through them. It&#039;s very serious and I think you explain very well how they are and what they can do to people. Thank you :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliantly said!!</p>
<p>I have been through all three of these things in my life &#8211; and I can say they were dark times. I can&#8217;t say I have fully come out of the self hatred state but I do not harm my body any more.<br />
Those of us who ahte ourselves have our own reasons, and telling us that we shouldn&#8217;t is a no-no. you can&#8217;t tell people what to feel, or that they are wrong in what they feel, you have to show them you care about them. Leaving them in the dirt is what they expect. Somedays I want to be lost on an island just to avoid people and somedays I just wish no one knew me because I feel like the devil. </p>
<p>These things in life aren&#8217;t just phases and not everyone goes through them. It&#8217;s very serious and I think you explain very well how they are and what they can do to people. Thank you <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: e2tc</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/#comment-1930</link>
		<dc:creator>e2tc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-1930</guid>
		<description>Great post. Suicidal thoughts - and what drives them - are &lt;b&gt;so&lt;/b&gt; misunderstood. (Not just in the church, but in the world as a whole.) Though I can&#039;t speak from any personal experience re. cutting, I deeply appreciate your candor and compassion on this subject. You&#039;re helping me understand, and for that I&#039;m truly thankful!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. Suicidal thoughts &#8211; and what drives them &#8211; are <b>so</b> misunderstood. (Not just in the church, but in the world as a whole.) Though I can&#8217;t speak from any personal experience re. cutting, I deeply appreciate your candor and compassion on this subject. You&#8217;re helping me understand, and for that I&#8217;m truly thankful!</p>
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		<title>By: littletiger</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/#comment-1925</link>
		<dc:creator>littletiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-1925</guid>
		<description>Lindsey - thank you!  This post is amazing and filled with such insight!  It&#039;s hard when others don&#039;t understand the pain that is carried inside.  My self-destructive behavior wasn&#039;t cutting, but I slowly was starving myself to death - and came close, but a couple of really good friends helped me realize what I was doing and confronted me in a loving way.  It is still something that I struggle with.  I&#039;m fortunate tho to have a wonderful husband who sees the best in me and love me when I don&#039;t like myself very much.  Thanks again Lindsey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindsey &#8211; thank you!  This post is amazing and filled with such insight!  It&#8217;s hard when others don&#8217;t understand the pain that is carried inside.  My self-destructive behavior wasn&#8217;t cutting, but I slowly was starving myself to death &#8211; and came close, but a couple of really good friends helped me realize what I was doing and confronted me in a loving way.  It is still something that I struggle with.  I&#8217;m fortunate tho to have a wonderful husband who sees the best in me and love me when I don&#8217;t like myself very much.  Thanks again Lindsey.</p>
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		<title>By: wvhillcountry</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/#comment-1924</link>
		<dc:creator>wvhillcountry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-1924</guid>
		<description>Self-love is the last thing most self-destructive people have too much of.

Matthew,  Wonderfully stated.  If we, at that lowest point, had any self love at all, we would have been able to accept the love from others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Self-love is the last thing most self-destructive people have too much of.</p>
<p>Matthew,  Wonderfully stated.  If we, at that lowest point, had any self love at all, we would have been able to accept the love from others.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/#comment-1922</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-1922</guid>
		<description>Lins,

I have had periods of both self-destructive behavior and suicidal thoughts.  I have been under treatment and counseling in the past.  Bless you, sister, for your eloquence and thoughtfulness.  So many people, who haven&#039;t been through it, say, &quot;People who are suicidal are just selfish,&quot; and that just kills me.  Self-love is the last thing most self-destructive people have too much of.

Thanks again, Lindsey, for your writing!

Matty</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lins,</p>
<p>I have had periods of both self-destructive behavior and suicidal thoughts.  I have been under treatment and counseling in the past.  Bless you, sister, for your eloquence and thoughtfulness.  So many people, who haven&#8217;t been through it, say, &#8220;People who are suicidal are just selfish,&#8221; and that just kills me.  Self-love is the last thing most self-destructive people have too much of.</p>
<p>Thanks again, Lindsey, for your writing!</p>
<p>Matty</p>
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		<title>By: amberfireinus</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/#comment-1914</link>
		<dc:creator>amberfireinus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 05:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-1914</guid>
		<description>Lindsey, thank you for this teaching post.  Written with honestly and empathy and loaded with compassion.  

SanityFound and I had a discussion on a post I plan to make in the near future regarding this subject too - but the time for me is not appropriate to do so.

Maybe just maybe someone will read the words of both you and SF and stop and think about how much God loves them before attempting to take their own life.  I can only pray they be guided to you both as beacons of strength who has actually walked through the fire and made it to the other side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindsey, thank you for this teaching post.  Written with honestly and empathy and loaded with compassion.  </p>
<p>SanityFound and I had a discussion on a post I plan to make in the near future regarding this subject too &#8211; but the time for me is not appropriate to do so.</p>
<p>Maybe just maybe someone will read the words of both you and SF and stop and think about how much God loves them before attempting to take their own life.  I can only pray they be guided to you both as beacons of strength who has actually walked through the fire and made it to the other side.</p>
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		<title>By: wvhillcountry</title>
		<link>http://emphaticasterisk.com/2008/06/09/self-mutilation-self-hatred-suicide/#comment-1913</link>
		<dc:creator>wvhillcountry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shushnow.wordpress.com/?p=163#comment-1913</guid>
		<description>Lindsey, I cried as I read this post because at some point I was both.  Yes I was suicidal for about 3 years.  I had planned my death on many occasions.  I even knew what I wanted my coffin to look like.  There was one Sunday I knew I would kill myself but my Sunday School teacher said something to me that day that stopped me.  I engaged in risky behavior hoping to die by accident.  I turned to alcohol to numb the pain and I have driven many times as a teenager where I don&#039;t remember getting home.  Yes I wanted to die to make the pain stop.

But then again I went through many years when I couldn&#039;t feel anything.  I didn&#039;t self mutilate for attention, I hid most of my scars in places where no one would see.  I have held burning hot red knives to my flesh and not felt any pain.  I could smell burning flesh but I couldn&#039;t feel it for about two minutes.  Yes I timed how long it took me to feel pain.  

I learned how to numb myself from an early age.  I too was sexually abused and the only way I could survive was to numb myself completely from feeling anything.  Good or bad.

Now as an adult I look back and wonder how I survived it all.  But I know it is from God&#039;s grace that I am alive and whole today.  And yes people like you and Anita have given me the nurishment and room to grow into a whole being.  

I have come so far from the scared, tired teenager.  I am not who I was then, but I can truly understand when I meet someone who is in that place.  Maybe that is why I had to be there, to understand those who are now in that same place.  

Thank you for this post.  Thank you for opening yourself up to let others know that there is hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindsey, I cried as I read this post because at some point I was both.  Yes I was suicidal for about 3 years.  I had planned my death on many occasions.  I even knew what I wanted my coffin to look like.  There was one Sunday I knew I would kill myself but my Sunday School teacher said something to me that day that stopped me.  I engaged in risky behavior hoping to die by accident.  I turned to alcohol to numb the pain and I have driven many times as a teenager where I don&#8217;t remember getting home.  Yes I wanted to die to make the pain stop.</p>
<p>But then again I went through many years when I couldn&#8217;t feel anything.  I didn&#8217;t self mutilate for attention, I hid most of my scars in places where no one would see.  I have held burning hot red knives to my flesh and not felt any pain.  I could smell burning flesh but I couldn&#8217;t feel it for about two minutes.  Yes I timed how long it took me to feel pain.  </p>
<p>I learned how to numb myself from an early age.  I too was sexually abused and the only way I could survive was to numb myself completely from feeling anything.  Good or bad.</p>
<p>Now as an adult I look back and wonder how I survived it all.  But I know it is from God&#8217;s grace that I am alive and whole today.  And yes people like you and Anita have given me the nurishment and room to grow into a whole being.  </p>
<p>I have come so far from the scared, tired teenager.  I am not who I was then, but I can truly understand when I meet someone who is in that place.  Maybe that is why I had to be there, to understand those who are now in that same place.  </p>
<p>Thank you for this post.  Thank you for opening yourself up to let others know that there is hope.</p>
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