Gay also means happy
I can remember a conversation once where someone was trying to explain to me just how awful homosexuality was. He said something about sexual depravity. I responded, “what if a homosexual never had sex?”
He said, “then what would be the point of them?”
I don’t remember my immediate response, but I was baffled. The conversation continued with the man in question talking about how he can’t see why homosexuals don’t realize how sexually depraved they are, since the thought of a man putting his man-parts anywhere near this guy’s butt made this guy want to puke. To fight through all of that “negative energy” around that sort of sexual act and do it anyway, this guy said, just proved how depraved gay men must be. Because everyone else knows how gross it is.
I really was baffled by what to say. There were a lot of things I could have. I could have stated that a lot of heterosexuals also enjoy things that would probably make his skin crawl, but I was fairly sure the kneejerk response would be that all of those things were also sexually depraved- as his measuring rod for how depraved any one thing was seemed to be how gross it made him feel. I could have cleverly stated that the fact he had no interest in homosexual intercourse was kind of the point, seeing as he was not homosexual, and gay men probably found the thought of putting their male appendages near a female’s sexy bits equally disgusting- but I didn’t say that either.
I shrugged, and said, “gay also means happy.”
The man in question looked at me as if I was rather odd (which I must confess to being) and asked me why I would even say that.
“Anything more rational to say eludes me,” I replied.
“Why?” He said.
“Because this conversation is irrational.” I think my pointing that out really offended him. I honestly could have done it with more delicacy. I’m just bothered by the fact that there’s this whole contingency of the population that judge not based off of rational arguments, not based off of biblical study, not based off of compassion or mercy, but based off of what they perceive must be true because they get the willies. Here’s the thing: let’s imagine for a moment that I hate Jell-O. I hate the texture of it in my mouth. I hate how it quivers all the time, as if it’s alive. I hate how slippery it is and how hard it is to cut it with a spoon. Let’s imagine that based off of the fact I think Jell-O is unnatural, I just decide to make a law saying that Jell-O is bad. How many kids lunches would I be destroying based off of personal preference?
You may respond, “that’s not an equal argument, it’s totally irrational.” Well, that’s how I feel about the “It’s just gross” argument. As kids we think that all sex is equally gross. The fact that our parents have sex makes us want to vomit. I know some adults who still feel the same way when they think about their parents having sex. Does that mean that once someone has the sufficient number of kids, they should cease sexual activities? I hope not.
You could say that this icky feeling is because you are in tune with God, who also feels that it’s icky. My question then becomes- do you get this feeling when someone lies? When they are cruel? Does the thought of petty theft make you want to puke? So are you only in tune with God about homosexual intercourse, or is he communicating with you on this level constantly? You could say it goes against nature- that’s why it’s icky. Hm… The natural order argument does have a certain aesthetic- but one can logically argue that homosexuality plays an important role in the natural order of human society. By homosexuals taking themselves out of the breeding order, they can help to quell population growth. They also can adopt unwanted children and generally just be really helpful. So while perhaps it goes against the natural order of “insert a into b and make a baby!”, there is still a perfectly rational argument for them naturally existing.
Not to mention the fact that we are lightyears away from understanding how human sexuality actually works. Well, the counterargument to that point inevitably goes- a Christian can understand by simply asking God.
Do you think I haven’t? Do you think that I would dare to write this post without ever once praying and asking God if I may be coming out on the wrong side of this issue? I’ve yet to hear God respond to me very clearly- he doesn’t really use words for the average occassion… but I look at the swath of destruction that the Church as a whole body has left behind… I look at the teenage kids crying and begging God to fix their sexuality, I look at the suicide rate and skyrocketing depression and all of the people left on the sidelines feeling as if their lives have been destroyed over something they honestly cannot control…
And I know one thing. Whether or not homosexuality goes against God’s plan for people, the way we as a Church handle it is still wrong.
Questions, comments, cookies? 
Put ‘em in the comments.
Hayden Tompkins replied:
“Because this conversation is irrational.”
Best. Line. Ever.
August 29, 2008 at 1:53 pm. Permalink.
Matty replied:
I love you… here’s a cookie!
Thanks!
August 29, 2008 at 3:21 pm. Permalink.
triptotheouthouse replied:
Just by tag-surfing this morning, I ran across this post. I was pretty amazed as we have some very similar thoughts. I wrote my ideas down a couple of weeks ago in my blog, but I guess Icome at it from a little different slant. If you’re interested, it’s here: http://triptotheouthouse.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/dog-poop-religion-and-the-ick-factor/
August 29, 2008 at 3:48 pm. Permalink.
SanityFound replied:
My browser crashed after writing such a long comment – not happy with this Safari think its time for Firefox to returnith!
Cookies distracted me as well
Gay means happy then pray tell why are they called Gay unless it is because it is true, it is being true to who we are, who we are meant to be… perhaps I am wrong when I say that when the old people “ancients” selected words it was purposeful and meaningful. Do you know how that originated now I am fascinated… *off to go search*
Great amazing hand clapping feet stomping dancing around the table incredible post! Phew!
*holds thumbs that Safari doesn’t crash yet again*
August 29, 2008 at 3:50 pm. Permalink.
lesbiansaidwhat replied:
LINDSEY–thank you for this post.
C.
August 29, 2008 at 4:21 pm. Permalink.
Stephanie replied:
Loved the Jello analogy!
Right on and funny!
August 29, 2008 at 6:46 pm. Permalink.
Tony replied:
I gotta back Hayden on the best line ever. Freaking A.
August 29, 2008 at 8:56 pm. Permalink.
wvhillcountry replied:
Lindsey, Here is a baker’s dozen of cookies. You bring up so many valid points and yet you work out of love. I love you girl, (meant in a non homo way of course). Someday we will meet and I will tell my kids of the wonderful works you have done.
August 30, 2008 at 12:25 am. Permalink.
mssc54 replied:
Lindsay, as you know I have grown more uncomfortable with my traditional view(s) of those “who practice alternative life styles”.
I must whole heartedly agree however, that the Church at large has been despicable in reaching out to these specific “sinners”. All the while turning an eye on the fornicator, the abused wife and child, the husband who turns his back on his domestic responsibilities.
How will our Christian leaders answer?
August 30, 2008 at 1:08 am. Permalink.
Mattitiah Curtis replied:
IF homosexuality goes against the Lord’s plan for man? IF??!! Everything the Lord created was supposed to bring forth life. Does homosexuality bring forth life??!! No! If the Creator meant for homosexuality, why wouldn’t the Creator have made it possible for that (uggghh!) to bring forth life?
August 30, 2008 at 4:33 am. Permalink.
Tee replied:
I love what you say in this post.
I myself, don’t know where I stand religiously, but religion and morality always seems to be linked when talking about homosexuality.
But from what I understand from the study that I have read in the Bible:
1. I don’t think that man can really fathom what God’s plan is. If that were the case, we would essentially would know everything.
2. Judgment is not the role for us as humans. I think the ten commandments would have been a lot different if it said, “Judge thy neighbor”
3. So many many many places in the Bible, the word “love” is used. Regardless of whether or not you are religious (whether it be Christianity or another religion), it is so important to love one another.
E.A., you mention the Jell-O analogy of personal preference. That’s exactly what it is: PERSONAL preference. Tolerance and love are so important. I wish people could respect others, even if they don’t agree with what the other person likes.
In regards to homosexuality, someone is not going to affect you or hurt you simply because they are “gay.” On the flip-side, our society dramatically affects the lives gay men and women simply because they are that: gay.
Love. Love. Love.
August 30, 2008 at 5:35 am. Permalink.
bohemianprose replied:
I don’t wholly disagree, though “their” struggle, depression and suicide rate etc only goes to further prove a point, that is that “it” (if nothing else) proves that it’s a sin. Let me explain: Our conscience bears witness of our desires or our actions or inactions. What do we think Romans 1 was about??? There are a lot of bible versus that say it’s wrong ok ok ok but why? Or maybe how?
How can someone do something they feel on some level is not right or are struggling with weather it is right or wring. in Romans it says because they give them selves over to the thoughts of their minds… because of this God gave them over to their own delusions that woman would exchange to use of a man for another woman and men would burn for one another and take them with in themselves. It takes a while for someone rationalizing or trying to understand what’s going on and then they seem to say forget it Im tired of fighting it and give in. If you ask any one who says they were gay and I have if at some point they struggled with it and thought it was wrong the answer comes back 100% of the time YES, why is that? Any person and any sin can be rationalized.. soon where we thought it was wrong, it’s wrong to lie but I needed to, each time we give over it become easier to think we are in fact doing something that isn’t wrong and soon if it isn’t wrong it become right.
August 30, 2008 at 6:23 am. Permalink.
bohemianprose replied:
I think if the Church is to deal with something it must be honest in it’s approach. We can speak to a sinner and love them but any many cases it calls fir us to shun sinners if they continue in sin especially in sexual sin, Paul said this. If they think it is ok if any sinner thins sin is ok they fool them selves and make God a lier.
So before the Church can deal with this issue people have to recognize their sin and need for repentance otherwise we a preaching a gospel that doe not require repentance.
August 30, 2008 at 6:27 am. Permalink.
Reaper replied:
Nicely written, you certainly get a cookie
August 30, 2008 at 8:06 am. Permalink.
Lindsey replied:
triptotheouthouse: Thanks- and it does appear that we think similarly. The difference in approach is probably due to the fact that I’m a heterosexual Christian.
lesbiansaidwhat: thanks
Mattiah Curtis: That is the sort of logic that used to allow men to simply desert a wife who wasn’t having kids, because obviously God had not approved of their marriage.
Bohemian Prose: Or the suicide and depression rate could be because they are rejected by their families and condemned by their church. Yes- they question if it is wrong. They must question that, because people walk around carrying signs that say things like “God Hates Fags”. It’s obvious the Church thinks it’s wrong, so anyone who loves God and doesn’t follow the “straight and narrow” path of sexuality will inevitably question themselves. I’ve been close friends with people who struggled with their sexuality- and the struggle wasn’t because they where “tempted” into something they knew was wrong, but because they were trying to force themselves to be straight, to feel straight, to be attracted to the opposite sex, and they simply weren’t. I can understand the argument that if they are faithful and wait on God he will reveal the right path to them, but the simple truth is that as long as we keep pretending it is their fault that they are gay and it is wrong to simply BE gay, actual sexual intercourse aside- that it is simply wrong and immoral to have any sexual orientation other than heterosexuality- we are hurting people.
I simply do not believe that sexual orientation is a choice.
EVERYONE ELSE: Thanks for all the cookies and love! (and wvhillcountry- I’ve got a totally nonsexual girl crush on you as well! I can’t wait for the day we really meet.)
August 30, 2008 at 11:03 am. Permalink.
Mattitiah Curtis replied:
“triptotheouthouse: Thanks- and it does appear that we think similarly. The difference in approach is probably due to the fact that I’m a heterosexual Christian.
”
You can’t be both.
August 30, 2008 at 12:29 pm. Permalink.
Lindsey replied:
I can’t be a heterosexual Christian? Heterosexual means attracted to people of the opposite gender. I’m happily married to a man whom I’ve given two children. I’m pretty sure that falls into God’s plan fairly precisely.
August 30, 2008 at 12:30 pm. Permalink.
wvhillcountry replied:
Lindsey, I’m sorry but I never realized that you too were being persecuted for your sexuality. Dang I never realized how hard it was for heterosexual Christians
August 30, 2008 at 12:48 pm. Permalink.
wvhillcountry replied:
Mattiah Curtis, Homosexual couple can and do procreate. Sure it isn’t in the “put tab A into slot B” but with modern medicine it is possibly. And before you say that it isn’t natural, alot of straight couples also use this same technology. So if it isn’t “natural” then should we refuse to allow any couples to use this form of procreation?
August 30, 2008 at 12:53 pm. Permalink.
Katherine replied:
I’d have posted this comment sooner, but things have been busy/distracting around here.
Very well said!!
My dad loves to use similar arbitrary arguments.
For me, because of the fact that most heterosexual Christian’s view of homosexuality is skewed by their own knee-jerk reaction, I don’t trust their interpretation of the Bible on the subject. Ya know, I could judge a lot of things by what makes me go “Ick!!”. Sometimes the thought of any of my hetero friends having a+b sex with their spouses just makes me shudder, cringe and think “You did WHAT?” So based on that reaction I could say that hetero sex is unnatural as well. It is, after all, unnatural to me. But that’s how they express their love toward each other and I respect it and have learned to regard it as a beautiful expression even if it doesn’t do anything for me. At the end of day there are many sexual acts and most (lots of straight, as well as gay) can be classified as unnatural in some way. And it has become my personal belief that it’s not the sexual act itself that matters so much as it is the heart behind the act.
Also, ‘natural’ doesn’t equal ‘good’ anymore than ‘unnatural’ equals ‘sin’. In the Bible, the words natural and unnatural are used in several often contradictory ways. For example:
-Natural man cannot receive the things of the spirit. Which would imply that the things of the spirit are unnatural to us in some way. (1 Cor. 2:14)
-And when God justified the Gentiles (a good thing!!), and not just the Jews, based on their faith in Jesus, this was described as contrary to nature (Romans 11:24-incendently the same exact wording as in Romans 1:26)
Not only is ‘natural’ or ‘unnatural’ very subjective, but it just isn’t even a good indicator of right or wrong.
Anyway, this was a really good post!
August 30, 2008 at 3:21 pm. Permalink.
Stephanie replied:
Mattitiah-
“Does homosexuality bring forth life??!! No! If the Creator meant for homosexuality, why wouldn’t the Creator have made it possible for that (uggghh!) to bring forth life?”
Do you say that to your heterosexual friends as well? You know, the one’s who can’t get pregnant for one reason or another, whether it be because of a male or female issue? Probably not.
These folks can’t really bring forth life either, in the way you are describing. However, I have met quite a few homosexual and hetorsexual folks who have adopted the life that someone else has brought forth.
I have seen gay folks reach out and adopt those kids that many other people don’t want….the older ones….the troubled ones. I even know a couple who decided to adopt three kids because they were all related and they didn’t want to seperate them, although their original intention in the beginning was to only adopt one child.
I think in a different kind of way, these folks I’ve mentioned (whether gay or straight) bring forth life and help it to grow.
August 30, 2008 at 5:27 pm. Permalink.
Gina replied:
Lindsey, I love the thoughtfulness and compassion that you bring to the many topics you discuss.
Here are my two cents, for what they’re worth (not directed to any specific person, just thoughts that popped into my head as I was reading the blog and comments).
I don’t think homosexuality is “unnatural.” Homosexuality has been observed and documented in nature. What can be more natural than *nature*?
It is true that God told us, humans, to go forth and multiply. It’s also true that a homosexual couple can not create life the traditional way. However, they CAN procreate through many other avenues. A fertile gay man can donate his sperm to an infertile couple, find a surrogate who birth (using his sperm) to a child he will raise, or possibly “do the deed” (despite his sexual orientation) with his best female friend to give her the child she’s always wanted (that last example happens in movies, lol. It’s not too far fetched, though… is it?). The resulting child is HIS (and the birth mothers) flesh and blood. That’s procreating, isn’t it? A gay man, regardless of fertility, can give the gift of life to an adoptable child. In this case, the child is already living, but, from the moment of adoption until the time the child becomes an adult, the gay man is responsible for protecting that life and insuring the continuation of that life. That’s sort of a stretch on “giving life”, but it’s valid, right? A gay woman can accept donated sperm, and carry a child in her womb, and give birth. Or she can donate her eggs to infertile couples. That’s giving life. A gay woman can adopt. Homosexuals *can* give life. Many of them have done it. For those who CANNOT give life, or decide not to, they can care for a life that already exists, or indirectly create life by helping others create life (maybe a homosexual doctor or nurse can take part in fertility treatments or invitro fertilization for childless couples).
On the other hand, a heterosexual couple might not be able to have children. For reasons unknown to us mere mortals, God made infertile heterosexauls. Are those people somehow un-Christian because they can’t “go forth and multiply” as God directed us to do? What about fertile individuals who DECIDE not to have children? Are they sinners for not having children? I doubt it. Gold told us *as a race* to have children. To populate the earth. He did NOT tell each individual that they must have children, or be damned to hell. As you can probably tell, I don’t think the “they can’t have babies the traditional way” argument is valid in any way, shape or form.
On another note, modern science believes homosexuality is not a choice (in most cases). It is often genetic. Science believes homosexuals are born that way. If this is true, which I believe it is, how can someone be a sinner simply because they were born the way God made them? I must admit that I don’t have a mind for science, and I have never studied theoligiy intensively, so I freely admit to my simpleness and ignorance on this topic. But, in my simple mind, it only makes sense that a person who is born a homosexual is not a sinner solely because he or she is attracted to the same gender. Otherwise, God wouldn’t have made that person – or at least wouldn’t have made them gay.
September 1, 2008 at 12:23 pm. Permalink.
vanessaleighsblog replied:
Wow, Lindsey! Another excellent post and thought provoking words……. BTW, I also agree the jello analogy…….the whole ICK factor is where many persons get stuck, and therefore, irrational conversations will continue….. many churches, note that I am not saying ALL churches, have committed spiritual violence against so many youths and adults that are dealing with sexual orientation issues, as well as those that love and support those persons. That is plain old wrong; some churches have become more welcoming, but we have a LONG way to go….. thank you so much for your willingness to look at your own perspective, and to push others out of their comfort zone in order to learn a bit…
September 4, 2008 at 3:19 pm. Permalink.